Tape 81
Short_Description:
Sound Factory Party
Vimeo_:
TranscriptText:
Netscape Documentary
Tape 81
p35O Torn Theres free software summit at OReillys home on the 7th thats next week.
And were going Thats the only one know about and if theres two free
software summits going on the same time thatd be little weird cause the player
list at this one is everybody youd think Urn including people that you should
think about that you dont So its its
pretty good Urn might that be what youre
talking about Did they mention who was having this free software
Its in Palo Alto
Yeah its in Palo Alto...were going were there
OK. .make sure. .the world knows it
Maggies right here Maggie Maggie
OK next question Dont all jump Yes
.. small team engineering but wonder how what kind of mythology will
apply for doing small team engineering when the whole Internet will working on
the source
So dont think its the case that everyone on the Internets just going to have re
write access to every branch of the tree right
Not every branch
Not every branch mean lets see just Gramps is going to stand in their way
and no mean think the way this is going to work is not unlike the way weve
seen LINUX and other successful project work which is to the extent theyre
more complex than one person can be the arbiter of all the incoming uh diffs
youre going to have to designate owners of specific modules who will be almost
the the benevolent dictators of their piece of the project And its got thats the
only way you can scale So theres going to be somebody in charge of the plug-in
interface and someone in charge of layout and someone in charge of chrome or
UI Brendans got document that lays that out and itll be those persons
responsibility urn to deci to work with the Net and manage which pieces they
13 O-V
Page
Netscape Documentary 2S
Tape 81 13
take and which they dont mean do we know do we have all the answers
no Are we making all this stuff up well there are some existence proofs out there
and were going to try and learn what we can from seeing the people whove done
this well and we also have Michael Toy to help with it
just want to say that one of the interesting things that came out of talking to
LINUX is that the actual number of people
When we were talking to LINTJX one of the interesting things is the actual number
of people actual number of people doing live development the actual number of
people doing live development on LINUX is roughly comparable to the
number of people .. our source tree Roughly comparable to the number of
people touching our source tree and so in some sense we have solved problem
equal to the size of the problem that LINUX has already And so we already sort of
know how to do software developing in in fairly large scale compared to what
everyone else does so its not going to be million times bigger than what weve
done already we already know maybe even more about doing large scale complex
software development than lot of other people So were already really good at it
And we can use our expertise to make you know the things weve learned about
what weve done wrong to do it even better Im not Im not afraid of thousands
of Net developers think think were going to be ready for them
So the question is eyeball hours Sounds good but what happens or what do we
think about how many of those eyeball hours are going to happen on PCs versus all
these other devices like set top boxes and handhelds and Palm Pilots and so forth
well first of all let me make couple observations about eyeball hours as
definition for the goal Because unlike just saying market share think it has some
really nice attributes How do you grow eyeball hours Does that that it makes
sense that that would be source of value you know again just to dont want to
trivialize the example but you know television that people watch more hours per
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape 81 /$0L1 39.oo
day or eyeball hours and that is to grow the number of users And thats why
and thats very different than share thing Because obviously with the Net the
total number of users is uh were nowhere close to the total number of users yet
So it it does create incentives for us
CUT
.and uh its the communication of that...of what you can see we already have an
issue with
Ijust want to add one thing which is in the near term maybe well need to
formulate recommendations for which one you you download into .. and so
forth in the long term in the long term when AV works over IP and wont
have these problems urn the answers got to be making the whole process of
upgrading whole lot less of an issue Its just got to you know nobody
wonders well should upgrade to that new AOL thing or not it just happens or
youre asked should and you just sort of do it And well just have to figure out
how much of that information is worth it But the short answer is Im not sure yet
the way to do it can irnagine lots of ways arid thats one of the things well have
to figure out
Question was heard allot about the browser what about Composer Um and
thats just an
CUT
..lot in Composer in order to help an eyeball hours mission mean if you can
you know again step way back and think of this less as like client features and
websites but more as like total integrated service you know imagine how cool it
would be if
CUT
Whats the plan for
relationships with third party companies ..
3t 3o oO
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape 81
Itll change itll change But wl1 still have uh internal product marketing 3t 9o
managers and product champions internally that will serve our enterprise
customers and uh theyll continue product planning in the same way we have in
the past
Well and also Ward is free to go ahead and make that change and submit it to
Mozilla.org as well
He better for ... Morgan Stanley
But have talked to lot of the big companies and none of them are interested in
doing their own private builds All right theyre not out there oh great well take
this source code and now well make it left-handed They dont want to they dont
want to be there So theyre going to still have to get us to put the stuff in cause all
the other things that we do in this building have lot of value to those companies
were were not just doing this cause its fun It really they want to pay for it
they want to pay us do these to do the QA and to do it right
...5.0 development process that parallel process seems kind of similar to the 5.0
and 6.0 process..
CUT
It really it might appear that way in the sense that we got two teams going with
different delivery dates but think its pretty darn different mean when we
talked about this together in the Fall the big question was not like why are we
doing two the big question was dont get how .. is like logical upgrade path
from .. does that make sense
So the question is why is Raptor not going into 5.0 and that basically doesnt
make the cutoff date for 2.4 at this time
...so what that means is that were doing the work along the way to make the client
accommodate the new layout engine as it becomes available but the thing want to
come back to is ... was sitting there that night built the thing Im running it
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape 81
at home Ijust couldnt imagine going to the Net and saying we want to do 5.0
coming to theater near you in early 99 just couldnt see it Theyre the Net
wont wait They want it sooner so were going to were not going to wait on
Raptor till 99 were doing it now we got great folks on it but dont think
think we need to deliver something before Raptors ready so we will And that
doesnt mean Raptor is not important it just means that dont think the Netll
wait
...4 is going to have press release and its not just tag line and wont grow
tired of it and like want to do something else in 90 days its the future we got to
make it work So if its part of the making it work well do it um and and
hopefully therell be way to engage and leverage the Net the way Marks
suggesting as we are for development so that its not like you know we need
linear growth growth in QA per the number of lines that come from outside the
building But theres tall blond man who might have point of view on this and
want to let him talk too
V1 aAC.A Yeah just -just one con-iment on this as we grow the companys revenue by
enterprise software business and the Netcenter business we will also grow
the size of CPD we will absolutely do that so the one goes hand in hand with the
other hope that is one of the things that makes it easier to understand why um
as we pursue the goal of eyeball hours and pursue the goals of doing what end
users need we still need to make sure that were meeting the needs of enterprise
users need to make sure were doing things to help grow the Netcenter business
cause growing those businesses will enable us to grow the size of CPD also
including CPD QA
3o-o
...which is great but want to hand out one other thing today which is Free the
Division day April 9th free CPD day you guys are all on vacation have fun day
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape 81
April 9th. ..And for those of you who didnt bring your Palm Pilots with you
youll note that April 10th is Netscape Escape Day
Cheethtg
Thats it for the all-hands theres going to be t-shirts over there and food and
drinks in the back thanks everybody
People dig through the t-shirts to try to find their sizes
CUT
Below are random comments sounds pulled out of the b-rolL
Music Sting
More music
...and then as we go by ..oh yeah Shooting pictures..
.never stopping....never asking why.. jol
.rolling where we going..
.rolling moving forward..
.never crying..
.sensuous concrete curve..
...see if you can go right in front of Dave as we come out..
..I love this little BMW here..
Radio news
...Holy shit...
CUT
Party atmosphere
Tara Jamies going to kick my butt Im late ...Jamies going to kick my ass got to get
in there..
Insidetheclub t220
Musicians warming up
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape 81
__ /3l3/oOO
80s New Wave Music
So what what was it like making this film
Music people partying
This is great this is insane Absolutely insane
someone into microphone am Mozilla am Mozilla am Mozilla
CUT
More music snippets of conversations
END OF TAPE
Page
Tape 81
p35O Torn Theres free software summit at OReillys home on the 7th thats next week.
And were going Thats the only one know about and if theres two free
software summits going on the same time thatd be little weird cause the player
list at this one is everybody youd think Urn including people that you should
think about that you dont So its its
pretty good Urn might that be what youre
talking about Did they mention who was having this free software
Its in Palo Alto
Yeah its in Palo Alto...were going were there
OK. .make sure. .the world knows it
Maggies right here Maggie Maggie
OK next question Dont all jump Yes
.. small team engineering but wonder how what kind of mythology will
apply for doing small team engineering when the whole Internet will working on
the source
So dont think its the case that everyone on the Internets just going to have re
write access to every branch of the tree right
Not every branch
Not every branch mean lets see just Gramps is going to stand in their way
and no mean think the way this is going to work is not unlike the way weve
seen LINUX and other successful project work which is to the extent theyre
more complex than one person can be the arbiter of all the incoming uh diffs
youre going to have to designate owners of specific modules who will be almost
the the benevolent dictators of their piece of the project And its got thats the
only way you can scale So theres going to be somebody in charge of the plug-in
interface and someone in charge of layout and someone in charge of chrome or
UI Brendans got document that lays that out and itll be those persons
responsibility urn to deci to work with the Net and manage which pieces they
13 O-V
Page
Netscape Documentary 2S
Tape 81 13
take and which they dont mean do we know do we have all the answers
no Are we making all this stuff up well there are some existence proofs out there
and were going to try and learn what we can from seeing the people whove done
this well and we also have Michael Toy to help with it
just want to say that one of the interesting things that came out of talking to
LINUX is that the actual number of people
When we were talking to LINTJX one of the interesting things is the actual number
of people actual number of people doing live development the actual number of
people doing live development on LINUX is roughly comparable to the
number of people .. our source tree Roughly comparable to the number of
people touching our source tree and so in some sense we have solved problem
equal to the size of the problem that LINUX has already And so we already sort of
know how to do software developing in in fairly large scale compared to what
everyone else does so its not going to be million times bigger than what weve
done already we already know maybe even more about doing large scale complex
software development than lot of other people So were already really good at it
And we can use our expertise to make you know the things weve learned about
what weve done wrong to do it even better Im not Im not afraid of thousands
of Net developers think think were going to be ready for them
So the question is eyeball hours Sounds good but what happens or what do we
think about how many of those eyeball hours are going to happen on PCs versus all
these other devices like set top boxes and handhelds and Palm Pilots and so forth
well first of all let me make couple observations about eyeball hours as
definition for the goal Because unlike just saying market share think it has some
really nice attributes How do you grow eyeball hours Does that that it makes
sense that that would be source of value you know again just to dont want to
trivialize the example but you know television that people watch more hours per
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape 81 /$0L1 39.oo
day or eyeball hours and that is to grow the number of users And thats why
and thats very different than share thing Because obviously with the Net the
total number of users is uh were nowhere close to the total number of users yet
So it it does create incentives for us
CUT
.and uh its the communication of that...of what you can see we already have an
issue with
Ijust want to add one thing which is in the near term maybe well need to
formulate recommendations for which one you you download into .. and so
forth in the long term in the long term when AV works over IP and wont
have these problems urn the answers got to be making the whole process of
upgrading whole lot less of an issue Its just got to you know nobody
wonders well should upgrade to that new AOL thing or not it just happens or
youre asked should and you just sort of do it And well just have to figure out
how much of that information is worth it But the short answer is Im not sure yet
the way to do it can irnagine lots of ways arid thats one of the things well have
to figure out
Question was heard allot about the browser what about Composer Um and
thats just an
CUT
..lot in Composer in order to help an eyeball hours mission mean if you can
you know again step way back and think of this less as like client features and
websites but more as like total integrated service you know imagine how cool it
would be if
CUT
Whats the plan for
relationships with third party companies ..
3t 3o oO
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape 81
Itll change itll change But wl1 still have uh internal product marketing 3t 9o
managers and product champions internally that will serve our enterprise
customers and uh theyll continue product planning in the same way we have in
the past
Well and also Ward is free to go ahead and make that change and submit it to
Mozilla.org as well
He better for ... Morgan Stanley
But have talked to lot of the big companies and none of them are interested in
doing their own private builds All right theyre not out there oh great well take
this source code and now well make it left-handed They dont want to they dont
want to be there So theyre going to still have to get us to put the stuff in cause all
the other things that we do in this building have lot of value to those companies
were were not just doing this cause its fun It really they want to pay for it
they want to pay us do these to do the QA and to do it right
...5.0 development process that parallel process seems kind of similar to the 5.0
and 6.0 process..
CUT
It really it might appear that way in the sense that we got two teams going with
different delivery dates but think its pretty darn different mean when we
talked about this together in the Fall the big question was not like why are we
doing two the big question was dont get how .. is like logical upgrade path
from .. does that make sense
So the question is why is Raptor not going into 5.0 and that basically doesnt
make the cutoff date for 2.4 at this time
...so what that means is that were doing the work along the way to make the client
accommodate the new layout engine as it becomes available but the thing want to
come back to is ... was sitting there that night built the thing Im running it
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape 81
at home Ijust couldnt imagine going to the Net and saying we want to do 5.0
coming to theater near you in early 99 just couldnt see it Theyre the Net
wont wait They want it sooner so were going to were not going to wait on
Raptor till 99 were doing it now we got great folks on it but dont think
think we need to deliver something before Raptors ready so we will And that
doesnt mean Raptor is not important it just means that dont think the Netll
wait
...4 is going to have press release and its not just tag line and wont grow
tired of it and like want to do something else in 90 days its the future we got to
make it work So if its part of the making it work well do it um and and
hopefully therell be way to engage and leverage the Net the way Marks
suggesting as we are for development so that its not like you know we need
linear growth growth in QA per the number of lines that come from outside the
building But theres tall blond man who might have point of view on this and
want to let him talk too
V1 aAC.A Yeah just -just one con-iment on this as we grow the companys revenue by
enterprise software business and the Netcenter business we will also grow
the size of CPD we will absolutely do that so the one goes hand in hand with the
other hope that is one of the things that makes it easier to understand why um
as we pursue the goal of eyeball hours and pursue the goals of doing what end
users need we still need to make sure that were meeting the needs of enterprise
users need to make sure were doing things to help grow the Netcenter business
cause growing those businesses will enable us to grow the size of CPD also
including CPD QA
3o-o
...which is great but want to hand out one other thing today which is Free the
Division day April 9th free CPD day you guys are all on vacation have fun day
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape 81
April 9th. ..And for those of you who didnt bring your Palm Pilots with you
youll note that April 10th is Netscape Escape Day
Cheethtg
Thats it for the all-hands theres going to be t-shirts over there and food and
drinks in the back thanks everybody
People dig through the t-shirts to try to find their sizes
CUT
Below are random comments sounds pulled out of the b-rolL
Music Sting
More music
...and then as we go by ..oh yeah Shooting pictures..
.never stopping....never asking why.. jol
.rolling where we going..
.rolling moving forward..
.never crying..
.sensuous concrete curve..
...see if you can go right in front of Dave as we come out..
..I love this little BMW here..
Radio news
...Holy shit...
CUT
Party atmosphere
Tara Jamies going to kick my butt Im late ...Jamies going to kick my ass got to get
in there..
Insidetheclub t220
Musicians warming up
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape 81
__ /3l3/oOO
80s New Wave Music
So what what was it like making this film
Music people partying
This is great this is insane Absolutely insane
someone into microphone am Mozilla am Mozilla am Mozilla
CUT
More music snippets of conversations
END OF TAPE
Page
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