Tape 013 - Clip 3
Vimeo_:
TranscriptText:
What are you thinking at the moment
TH Well foremost is probably since them is such massive whump about to hit the
tree Im glad its Jim Roskind as opposed to other engineers mean all the
engineers here am really great but Jim is exceptionally methodical about his
process Urn the likelihood that his team is gonna do the right thing is pretty good
urn but its just this is huge thing right pulling Java out of the product
is...tendrils of it are everywhere so this is gonna be pretty scary and ongoing with
this is the remainder of the security changes that were making Jeff Weinstein
checked in all of his stuff but the
flip hasnt been switched to actually turn it off
the stuff is still in there so were trying to make changes to all of the MEG files
now to take that into account and hopefully all of the links will continue to work
and we wont have massive build breakage cause theyll basically gonna be going
Page 10
1iH 1__
f3L3 cqHc9
Sounds like the time to be here shooting is around
Thats right go out to dinner and youll hear tell tales thatll also..
L3/
Netscape Documentary
Tape 13 3/10/98
on simultaneously But all of the merges we need to get em finished by
tomorrow and then spend the next couple of days picking up whatever pieces fell
on the floor and Friday make the Tar Ball that gives us three days
The clock is ticking
TH Yeah
break frthtb t1rL ii
cH
Ijust called Michael Any minute now..
Yeah so the deal is that if Im in CP and Im trying to get my business done and
Im building and all this other stuff the tree that were talking about that they use
is on the outside of firewall and is writable by people youve never heard of and
can be down for hours at time and stuff which is under different set of trade
off and priorities that someone whos trying to do CP...release
LT dont believe it
Woooo well then weve got to...because thats the current state of affairs right
its certainly outside of the firewall
Li Its certainly outside the firewall but dont believe that there is different set of
priorities for the outside people..
AH
LT ...than for the inside people
Sure there are especially chronologically at certain times there is nothing more
destructive to somebody flying to ship product than having stable base
LT Then you go off on branch mean thats just the same for anybody..its not
JZ The theory is remember this fiction we had about how you dont ever check
something in that doesnt work and if it ever gets checked in it gets backed out
13.1 çoi
Page 11
Netscape Documentary
Tape 13 3/10/98
that weve always said and never enforced The theory is that well actually
enforce that for the tip
Thats fine youre still subject to hackerand stuff you are also subject to Mozillas
schedulehe large integration of the fumble feature its gonna be down Wednesday
at this oclock for four days until we get that thing integrated everybody buys off
and then Netscape for whatever reasons decides No no no no no were gonna
ship Beta in the middle of that week The tree cant be down for four days
But were all one team The outside and the inside is all one team This is where
disagree with you mean think we fundamentally disagree think wre all one
team
Then what do tell...then why are we having Mozitla.org at all mean the whole
fundamental premise behind the thing is that in order to cultivate the outside
developers you are going to need to be able to manage set of priorities and
constraints and stuff that are different for than for people that are in the CF
development shop
But heres the thing....say IBM is shipping their own versions of the browser
Ummy thinking was that they would be working out of the Mozilla.org tree just
like client engines Everybodys working out of that same CVs server
Sure but then its April and dont know what date it is its some day and the
Mozilla.org people have bunch of things they need to get done at certain priorities
and state in where they are...which are different from CPDs CPDs go to change
their mind
But heres the thing is that dont want there to be this like hard distinction
between how client en works and how IBMs version of client en works right...so
yeah if um youre saying it doesnt work to have all of these people working out
of Mozilla.orgs tree and if thats true for Netscape its true for IBM OK with
that as the premise why are we running CVS server
LT
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Netscape Documentary
Tape 13 3/10/98
Its not clear to me
OK well then thats the conversation we need to have guess
Well It kind sorta makes sense to me to use CVS for the people who are doing the
development work on the Mozilla tree but for the people who are
Whoa the people who are doing the development work on the Mozilla.org tree is
everybody right
Thats the point right IBM is trying to ship by product tomorrow afternoon
Netscape is trying to ship product 10 days from now and them is guy at the
University of Pittsburgh who wants to check some code in
Well the person at the University of Pittsburgh gets
told that were in stabilization
mode and youll have to hold your stuff in your tree
OK fine..
That doesnt work because IBM and Netscape arent synchronizing their scheduled
Thats for Damn sum they not
LT Well dont believe that theyre not believe that people are going to wan to ship
off some...at certain points in time Mozilla.org says oh were going toward
stabilization mode just like
just.. xAN
Lloyd sorry but IBM is integrating browser features into Lotus notes mumble
mumble fumble bumble theyre not shipping any browser..
LT Right so what were going to do is were gonna start up the last stable thing theyll
integrate that stuff in and sometime theyre gonna want to land those changes
Thats the way theyll work
The pull model the pull model Lotus is pulling OK and theyre trying to ship
What do you mean
And and some times they stop polling cause theyre close to shipping
iS
Page 13
Netscape Documentary
Tape 133/10/98
LT Theyre close to shipping and actually what they do probably is start at stable
point do their stuff ship product based on that stable point and then wanna land
their changes
Fine but the tree is the tree cant go down it cant disappear from the Network for
hours it just cant do that
Why would that happen
LT What do you mean
Theyre gonna have copy aof it inside their own shop that they can depend on
come hell or high water with by 24 support
LT Or they might be on branch
Branch schmanch Theyre gonna have it on machine they can manage
Its question of where the repository is not where the code is not when the code
is in the repository mean hes saying that IBM is not going to depend that this
organization that they have no financial control over Mozilla.org is going to keep
their machine on the Network 24 theyre not going to be willing to take that risk
LT Thats fine they dont have to take that risk
Yes they do
LT What they can do is they can check stuff out do all of their development work
check it in to the branch
TH Well foremost is probably since them is such massive whump about to hit the
tree Im glad its Jim Roskind as opposed to other engineers mean all the
engineers here am really great but Jim is exceptionally methodical about his
process Urn the likelihood that his team is gonna do the right thing is pretty good
urn but its just this is huge thing right pulling Java out of the product
is...tendrils of it are everywhere so this is gonna be pretty scary and ongoing with
this is the remainder of the security changes that were making Jeff Weinstein
checked in all of his stuff but the
flip hasnt been switched to actually turn it off
the stuff is still in there so were trying to make changes to all of the MEG files
now to take that into account and hopefully all of the links will continue to work
and we wont have massive build breakage cause theyll basically gonna be going
Page 10
1iH 1__
f3L3 cqHc9
Sounds like the time to be here shooting is around
Thats right go out to dinner and youll hear tell tales thatll also..
L3/
Netscape Documentary
Tape 13 3/10/98
on simultaneously But all of the merges we need to get em finished by
tomorrow and then spend the next couple of days picking up whatever pieces fell
on the floor and Friday make the Tar Ball that gives us three days
The clock is ticking
TH Yeah
break frthtb t1rL ii
cH
Ijust called Michael Any minute now..
Yeah so the deal is that if Im in CP and Im trying to get my business done and
Im building and all this other stuff the tree that were talking about that they use
is on the outside of firewall and is writable by people youve never heard of and
can be down for hours at time and stuff which is under different set of trade
off and priorities that someone whos trying to do CP...release
LT dont believe it
Woooo well then weve got to...because thats the current state of affairs right
its certainly outside of the firewall
Li Its certainly outside the firewall but dont believe that there is different set of
priorities for the outside people..
AH
LT ...than for the inside people
Sure there are especially chronologically at certain times there is nothing more
destructive to somebody flying to ship product than having stable base
LT Then you go off on branch mean thats just the same for anybody..its not
JZ The theory is remember this fiction we had about how you dont ever check
something in that doesnt work and if it ever gets checked in it gets backed out
13.1 çoi
Page 11
Netscape Documentary
Tape 13 3/10/98
that weve always said and never enforced The theory is that well actually
enforce that for the tip
Thats fine youre still subject to hackerand stuff you are also subject to Mozillas
schedulehe large integration of the fumble feature its gonna be down Wednesday
at this oclock for four days until we get that thing integrated everybody buys off
and then Netscape for whatever reasons decides No no no no no were gonna
ship Beta in the middle of that week The tree cant be down for four days
But were all one team The outside and the inside is all one team This is where
disagree with you mean think we fundamentally disagree think wre all one
team
Then what do tell...then why are we having Mozitla.org at all mean the whole
fundamental premise behind the thing is that in order to cultivate the outside
developers you are going to need to be able to manage set of priorities and
constraints and stuff that are different for than for people that are in the CF
development shop
But heres the thing....say IBM is shipping their own versions of the browser
Ummy thinking was that they would be working out of the Mozilla.org tree just
like client engines Everybodys working out of that same CVs server
Sure but then its April and dont know what date it is its some day and the
Mozilla.org people have bunch of things they need to get done at certain priorities
and state in where they are...which are different from CPDs CPDs go to change
their mind
But heres the thing is that dont want there to be this like hard distinction
between how client en works and how IBMs version of client en works right...so
yeah if um youre saying it doesnt work to have all of these people working out
of Mozilla.orgs tree and if thats true for Netscape its true for IBM OK with
that as the premise why are we running CVS server
LT
Page 12
/3 i7 C7
Netscape Documentary
Tape 13 3/10/98
Its not clear to me
OK well then thats the conversation we need to have guess
Well It kind sorta makes sense to me to use CVS for the people who are doing the
development work on the Mozilla tree but for the people who are
Whoa the people who are doing the development work on the Mozilla.org tree is
everybody right
Thats the point right IBM is trying to ship by product tomorrow afternoon
Netscape is trying to ship product 10 days from now and them is guy at the
University of Pittsburgh who wants to check some code in
Well the person at the University of Pittsburgh gets
told that were in stabilization
mode and youll have to hold your stuff in your tree
OK fine..
That doesnt work because IBM and Netscape arent synchronizing their scheduled
Thats for Damn sum they not
LT Well dont believe that theyre not believe that people are going to wan to ship
off some...at certain points in time Mozilla.org says oh were going toward
stabilization mode just like
just.. xAN
Lloyd sorry but IBM is integrating browser features into Lotus notes mumble
mumble fumble bumble theyre not shipping any browser..
LT Right so what were going to do is were gonna start up the last stable thing theyll
integrate that stuff in and sometime theyre gonna want to land those changes
Thats the way theyll work
The pull model the pull model Lotus is pulling OK and theyre trying to ship
What do you mean
And and some times they stop polling cause theyre close to shipping
iS
Page 13
Netscape Documentary
Tape 133/10/98
LT Theyre close to shipping and actually what they do probably is start at stable
point do their stuff ship product based on that stable point and then wanna land
their changes
Fine but the tree is the tree cant go down it cant disappear from the Network for
hours it just cant do that
Why would that happen
LT What do you mean
Theyre gonna have copy aof it inside their own shop that they can depend on
come hell or high water with by 24 support
LT Or they might be on branch
Branch schmanch Theyre gonna have it on machine they can manage
Its question of where the repository is not where the code is not when the code
is in the repository mean hes saying that IBM is not going to depend that this
organization that they have no financial control over Mozilla.org is going to keep
their machine on the Network 24 theyre not going to be willing to take that risk
LT Thats fine they dont have to take that risk
Yes they do
LT What they can do is they can check stuff out do all of their development work
check it in to the branch
